I voted, how about you?

[4Jettheads]

This is interesting. I gotta throw a couple quickies in here after reading all the views.
One-I paid my dues in a water-logged foxhole drenched to the bone on some days and roasting in an oven on others. I figure I've earned the right to have an opinion on GW's military tactics and the boy is an incompetent *******. He's pretty well proved that. Our own soldiers are refusing to carry out orders of their superiors. Wonder why they'd risk a courts martial rather than carry out orders. Could it be their appointed CO's are just as incompetent as Bush ? Be my guess. There's a game called "Pass the helmet", but we won't go there.
Item two: AMG, you were right the first time on the God post reference. It was NYJ that made the original, I just put up a short response. Just an observation and not an insult by any means. Your posts speak of facts and figures why Bush should be president, yet you failed to note the correct author of an original post concerning a supreme diety (pick a manmade word to apply to it, there are dozens)in this instance referred to as God.
I find it odd that someone that professes to rely on "facts" failed to do so when only two short posts were presented for context. That's ok, we all goof. But then, missing the original author of a messageboard post isn't firing high-explosive missles either.
Also, I am neither a liberal nor conservative. I'm not even sure I'm able to make a definitive line between the two. What I am is a logisticist. If it doesn't work out with basic math and logic, it ain't gonna work at all. Those aren't my rules, that's just the way it is. Basic logic and common sense dictate that GW's ideals and solutions to win a war against the insurgents and "terrorists" (what a lame term) won't work. It's nice we help the Iraqi's rebuild. Seems only right since we blew it off the face of the Earth to start. And it wasn't Iraq that made the initial attack on NYC on 09/11/2001. It was the religious followers of Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, which, btw, we trained and armed not so long before the attack. A-hem
So, we're off to see the wizard. I gotta run, but this is interesting. Sparklelynx, if ya get shipped, think about what Jenny said to Forrest Gump before he left. "Don't try to be a hero-just runaway, Forrest." Believe it. Ain't nobody in Washington worth dying for that I can see. Let 'em send their own family to get waxed to protect the family oil business.

[4Jettheads]

"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... logic can be happily tossed out the window."
Stephen King

[CHERIECURRIE]

Subject: article in a recent UK newspaper

GOD HELP AMERICA
Daily London Mirror
November 5
THEY say that in life you get what you deserve. Well, today America has
deservedly got a lawless cowboy to lead them further into carnage and
isolation and the unreserved contempt of most of the rest of the world.
This once-great country has pulled up its drawbridge for another four years
and stuck a finger up to the billions of us forced to share the same air.
And in doing so, it has shown itself to be a fearful, backward-looking and
very small nation.
This should have been the day when Americans finally answered their critics
by raising their eyes from their own sidewalks and looking outward towards
the rest of humanity.
And for a few hours early yesterday, when the exit polls predicted a John
Kerry victory, it seemed they had.
But then the horrible, inevitable truth hit home. They had somehow managed
to re-elect the most devious, blinkered and reckless leader ever put before
them. The Yellow Rogue of Texas.
A self-serving, dim-witted, draft-dodging, gung-ho little rich boy, whose
idea of courage is to yell: "I feel good," as he unleashes an awesome fury
which slaughters 100,000 innocents for no other reason than greed and
vanity.
A dangerous chameleon, his charming exterior provides cover for a
power-crazed clique of Doctor Strangeloves whose goal is to increase
America's grip on the world's economies and natural resources.
And in foolishly backing him, Americans have given the go-ahead for more
unilateral pre-emptive strikes, more world instability and most probably
another 9/11.
Why else do you think bin Laden was so happy to scare them to the polls,
then made no attempt to scupper the outcome?
There's only one headline in town today, folks: "It Was Osama Wot Won It."
And soon he'll expect pay-back. Well, he can't allow Bush to have his folks
whoopin' and a-hollerin' without his own getting a share of the fun, can he?
Heck, guys, I hope you're feeling proud today.
To the tens of millions who voted for John Kerry, my commiserations.
To the overwhelming majority of you who didn't, I simply ask: Have you
learnt nothing? Do you despise your own image that much?
Do you care so little about the world beyond your shores? How could you do
this to yourselves?
How appalling must one man's record at home and abroad be for you to reject
him?
Kerry wasn't the best presidential candidate the Democrats have ever fielded
(and he did deserve a kicking for that "reporting for doo-dee" moment), but
at least he understood the complexity of the world outside America, and
domestic disgraces like the 45 million of his fellow citizens without health
cover.
He would have done something to make that country fairer and re-connected it
with the wider world.
Instead America chose a man without morals or vision. An economic
incompetent who inherited a $2billion surplus from Clinton, gave it in tax
cuts to the rich and turned the US into the world's largest debtor nation.
A man who sneers at the rights of other nations. Who has withdrawn from
international treaties on the environment and chemical weapons.
A man who flattens sovereign states then hands the rebuilding contracts to
his own billionaire party backers.
A man who promotes trade protectionism and backs an Israeli government which
continually flouts UN resolutions.
America has chosen a menacingly immature buffoon who likened the pursuit of
the 9/11 terrorists to a Wild West, Wanted Dead or Alive man-hunt and,
during the Afghanistan war, kept a baseball scorecard in his drawer,
notching up hits when news came through of enemy deaths.
A RADICAL Christian fanatic who decided the world was made up of the forces
of good and evil, who invented a war on terror, and thus as author of it,
believed he had the right to set the rules of engagement.
Which translates to telling his troops to do what the **** they want to the
bad guys. As he has at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and countless towns across
Iraq.
You have to feel sorry for the millions of Yanks in the big cities like New
York, Washington, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco who voted
to kick him out.
These are the sophisticated side of the electorate who recognise a gibbon
when they see one.
As for the ones who put him in, across the Bible Belt and the South, us
outsiders can only feel pity.
Were I a Kerry voter, though, I'd feel deep anger, not only at them
returning Bush to power, but for allowing the outside world to lump us all
into the same category of moronic muppets.
The self-righteous, gun-totin', military lovin', sister marryin',
abortion-hatin', gay-loathin', foreigner-despisin', non-passport ownin'
red-necks, who believe God gave America the biggest dick in the world so it
could urinate on the rest of us and make their land "free and strong".
You probably won't be surprised to learn of would-be Oklahoma Republican
Senator Tom Coburn who, on Tuesday, promised to ban abortion and execute any
doctors who carried them out.
He also told voters that lesbianism is so rampant in the state's schools
that girls were being sent to toilets on their own. Not that any principal
could be found to back him up.
These are the people who hijack the word patriot and liken compassion to
child-molesting. And they are unknowingly bin Laden's chief recruiting
officers.
Al-Qaeda's existence is fuelled by the outpourings of America's Christian
right. Bush is its commander-in-chief. And he and bin Laden need each other
to survive.
Both need to play Lex Luther to each others' Superman with their own
fanatical people. Maybe that's why the mightiest military machine ever
assembled has failed to catch the world's most wanted man.
Or is the reason simply that America is incompetent? That behind the bluff
they are frightened and clueless, which is why they've stayed with the devil
they know.
VISITORS from another planet watching this election would surely not credit
the amateurism.
The queues for hours to register a tick; the 17,000 lawyers needed to ensure
there was no cheating; the $1.2bn wasted by parties trying to discredit the
enemy; the allegations of fraud, intimidation and dirty tricks; the exit
polls which were so wildly inaccurate; an Electoral College voting system
that makes the Eurovision Song Contest look like a beacon of democracy and
efficiency; and the delays and the legal wrangles in announcing the victor.
Yet America would have us believe theirs is the finest democracy in the
world. Well, that fine democracy has got the man it deserved. George W Bush.
But is America safer today without Kerry in charge? A man who overnight
would have given back to the UN some credibility and authority. Who would
have worked out the best way to undo the Iraq mess without fear of losing
face.
Instead, the questions facing America today are - how many more thousands of
their sons will die as Iraq descends into a new Vietnam? And how many more
Vietnams are on the horizon now they have given Bush the mandate to go after
Iran, Syria, North Korea or Cuba...?
Today is a sad day for the world, but it's even sadder for the millions of
intelligent Americans embarrassed by a gung-ho leader and backed by a banal
electorate, half of whom still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.
Yanks had the chance to show the world a better way this week, instead they
made a thuggish cowboy ride off into the sunset bathed in glory.
And in doing so it brought Armageddon that little bit closer and
re-christened their beloved nation The Home Of The Knave and the Land Of The
Freak.
God Help America.
--

[4Jettheads]

Interesting article, Cherie Bomb. I've seen several similar to it. More back on the track with this morning's headlines, it's starting. I saw it coming. The US and Iraqi forces are gonna go for broke in Fallujah. And from the AP wire from Monday night's assault:

"Overnight, air and artillery barrages lit up the skies over Fallujah lit up with flashes."

"Every minute, hundreds of bombs and shells are exploding," Fadril al-Badrani, a resident who lives in the center of Fallujah, said after nightfall Monday. "The north of the city is in flames. I can also see fire and smoke ... Fallujah has become like **** ."

Al-Badrani said hundreds of houses had been destroyed.

U.S. troops cut off electricity to the city. Residents said they were without running water and were worried about food shortages because most shops in the city have been closed for the past two days.

A U.S. military spokesman estimated that 42 insurgents were killed across the city in bombardment and skirmishes before the main assault began Monday evening. On Monday, a doctor at a clinic in Fallujah, Mohammed Amer, reported 12 people were killed. Seventeen others, including a 5-year-old girl and a 10-year-old boy, were wounded, he said.

The question of casualties is a major factor in the offensive. Reports of hundreds of people killed during the Marine offensive in April outraged Iraqis and forced the Marines to pull back - allowing guerrillas to only strengthen their hold on the city.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld insisted Monday, "There aren't going to be large numbers of civilians killed and certainly not by U.S. forces."

Allawi's government has also taken a prominent role in defending the assault - for which the prime minister gave the green light.

Still, it risks alienating Iraqis - particularly among the Sunni Arab minority. Industry Minister Hajim Al-Hassani - of the mainly Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party - quit the government Tuesday in protest.

Russia's Foreign Ministry warned that the attack could hurt the January election, saying the government is "concerned that the actions in this region not worsen the conditions in Iraq as a whole"

Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa said he hoped the violence "ends fast," adding that he was in touch with Iraqi officials. "No one can ever accept the way civilians are struck in Fallujah," he told reporters.

The U.N. refugee agency said Tuesday that it was "extremely concerned" about tens of thousands of people who fled ahead of the Fallujah fighting - many of them now living in tents.

And the International Committee of the Red cross said it was "very worried" that some wounded Iraqis have been unable to receive medical care because the fighting has been so intense.

---

Contributing to this report were Associated Press correspondents Robert Burns in Washington; Edward Harris in Fallujah; and Tini Tran, Mariam Fam, Katarina Kratovac and Maggie Michael in Baghdad.

(Corrects to Sunni 'minority' sted 'majority' in 5th paragraph)

? 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Purchase this AP story for reprint.

Advertisement

[4Jettheads]

I[m lovin' the comment by that jackas*, Rumsfeld.

"There aren't going to be large numbers of civilians killed and certainly not by U.S. forces."

Exactly what number did he have in mind when he made this statement ? And you ask why I believe our military and political leaders are incompentent. I rest my case. Does anyone here recall GW Bush's original statement when this mess in the middle east started ? "It'll be over in 60 days." His verbatim words. That was about 3 years ago. This has the potential to go longer than World War 2 if the public doesn't put an end to it and soon. Vietnam, here we go again.

As far as my service in the military, I can say that I was a US Army soldier trained at Fort Sill, OK and and Fort Riley, KS. I had multiple MOS's. (military occupation status, civilians) Other than that, I served my tour, came home with an honorable discharge and let it go for what it was worth. My time has long since expired and I never have to do it again, thank Joan. BTW-Ft. Sill is where I met Joan Jett for the first time. She's such a cute l'il munchkin. I just luv her.

[4Jettheads]

Why, Cherie Bomb ! Careful some nut that's an offspring of Joseph McCarthy doesn't show up on your doorstep with the following statement: "Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?"
I'm just waitin' for that fool, Ashcroft, to try that ploy. He's been trying. What a space cadet.
Where's the Berkley SDS when ya need 'em ?

And another striking comment from the AP wire:

"On Monday, a doctor at a clinic in Fallujah, Mohammed Amer, reported 12 people were killed. Seventeen others, including a 5-year-old girl and a 10-year-old boy, were wounded, he said."

Just a 5 year old and a 12 year old ? Wait'll they start tallying up the real numbers of innocents devastated by both sides. I was also amazed at the soldier that leveled the bldg. where alleged insurgents were holed up. It doesn't even approximate how many rounds of large caliber ordnance were fired to accomplish such a feat. I can't believe this insanity. Where's the colonel directing armor support ? Why weren't Apache attack choppers with high-tech vids called in to determine the exact location of these alleged "insurgents" ? We have the technology now to do just that. What a Chinese fire drill.
Cherie Bomb, you won't have to take your son across the border-I'll do it for ya.

[CHERIECURRIE]

Thanks Farmboy.
I'd hold your hand anytime.
Here's more:


ARE WE JUST GOING TO ACCEPT THESE CROOKS FOR FOUR MORE YEARS, OR ARE WE GOING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS VOTING FRAUD AND EXPOSE THEM?


Kisses, Cherry V

-----------------
Forwarded Message:

Subj: Fwd: Harper's Weekly
Date: TuesdayNovember92004 7:35:18 AM
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]

From: [email protected] (kevin ryan)
To: [email protected] (CHERRY VANILLA)

hey sweets,

the whole article is interesting, as harpers always is. if you don't want to read all of it, just scroll down to paragraph two. confirms exactly what you said.

later,

xxxxxK

Note: forwarded message attached.





Prime Minister Iyad Allawi of Iraq declared martial law

after twenty-two policemen were killed in one day; moments

later a car bomb blew up in Baghdad near the home of the

finance minister. A British contractor was killed in Basra,

attacks on American soldiers continued, and three Iraqi

translators were found dead in Tikrit. The United States

invaded Falluja for the second time in six months and

conquered the city's general hospital. Patients and doctors

were tied up and an Iraqi soldier shot himself in the leg.

Four car bombs blew up in Samarra and three police stations

were attacked nearby, a roadside bomb went off in Kufa, and

a police car was bombed in Ramadi. Insurgents disguised as

policemen murdered a dozen Iraqi national guardsmen who were

traveling to Najaf. Three British soldiers were killed in a

suicide bombing, and Doctors Without Borders announced that

it will cease its operations in Iraq. American soldiers

admitted to watching Iraqi looters haul off tons of

explosives from the Al Qaqaa ammunition depot, and American

intelligence agencies revised their estimate of the number

of surface-to-air missiles that are at large worldwide;

previously the number was thought to be 2,000 but now it

seems that about 4,000 Iraqi missiles are missing, bringing

the total to 6,000. An Air National Guard warplane fired its

20-millimeter cannon at an elementary school in Little Egg

Harbor Township, New Jersey. Hungary announced that it will

pull its forces out of Iraq, much of Venice was flooded by a

high tide, a plague of locusts descended on Cyprus, and

Senator John Kerry was narrowly defeated by President George

W. Bush in an election that was marred by irregularities and

unanswered questions about the integrity of electronic

voting machines.



Eleven states passed ballot initiatives banning gay

marriage. Voters in Montana approved the use of medical

marijuana; they also approved a "right to hunt" amendment.

Florida and Nevada raised the states' minimum wage. Lines at

Ohio polls were extremely long; one was estimated at 22

hours. Election software in Onslow County, North Carolina,

miscounted the votes for county commissioners. Some voting

machines in Broward County, Florida, started counting

backward once they reached 32,000. An electronic voting

machine in Ohio added 3,893 votes to President Bush's tally

in a district that had only 800 voters. Four thousand five

hundred and thirty early electronic votes in Carteret

County, North Carolina, were lost. Votes were also lost in

Palm Beach County, Florida, and in Tampa. Journalists were

still trying to figure out why exit polls -- which projected

that John Kerry would win in Florida, Ohio, New Mexico,

Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa -- turned out to be completely

wrong. "Exit polls are almost never wrong," wrote Dick

Morris. "Exit polls cannot be as wrong across the board as

they were on election night. I suspect foul play." It was

noted that anomalous voting patterns in Florida (where a

disproportionate number of Democrats apparently

voted for George W. Bush) were all confined to counties

where optical-scanning machines are used to read paper

ballots. Such votes are tabulated by Windows-based PCs

that are vulnerable to tampering. A poll taken just before

the election showed that 75 percent of Bush supporters still

believe that Iraq either was a close ally of Al Qaeda

or was directly involved in the September 11 attacks.

Voters in Dallas County, Texas, elected an openly gay

Hispanic woman as sheriff. President Bush promised "to serve

all Americans": "Let me put it to you this way," he said.

"I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and

now I intend to spend it."



The Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades, a group linked to Al Qaeda

that claimed responsibility for the Madrid bombings in

March, released a statement chastising Americans for

reelecting President Bush. "The coming days will show you

that the one you preferred will lead you to an unbearable

**** ," the statement said. "The next days will show you that

your support of the criminal will not bring you security and

will not prevent the mujahedeen from hurting you where you

are. The next days will prove this." Senator Arlen Specter

of Pennsylvania suggested that judicial nominees who do not

support Roe v. Wade might have a hard time getting confirmed

and immediately came under attack from conservatives seeking

to prevent him from becoming chairman of the Senate

Judiciary Committee. Elizabeth Edwards, the wife of John

Edwards, was diagnosed with breast cancer. Yasir Arafat was

dying, apparently of liver failure, and Israeli politicians

said that he would never be buried in Jerusalem; they

suggested an overgrown cemetery in Khan Yunis that smells of

dead fish. Asked whether Arafat was brain dead, the French

foreign minister said, "I wouldn't say that." Abilio Soares,

the last Indonesian governor of East Timor, was acquitted on

appeal of crimes against humanity. Saskatchewan legalized

gay marriage. A giant Wal-Mart opened up within a mile of

the pyramids at Teotihuac?n, Mexico. The FDA announced that

it will hire a scientific review agency to determine whether

the nation's drug safety system is working. A six-year-old

Florida girl took $1,000 worth of crack cocaine to school;

her mother said she must have got it trick-or-treating.

Police in Las Vegas were told to stop using Tasers on

handcuffed prisoners. Two Episcopal priests in Pennsylvania

were in trouble for also being Druid spiritual leaders; the

husband-and-wife priests were known among the Druids as

Raven and Oakwyse. Farmers in India were reportedly spraying

their cotton and chili fields with Coca-Cola because it's

cheaper than pesticides and kills pests just as effectively.

A Russian nuclear power plant was shut down because of what

was called a "minor mishap." Officials in Lithuania were

looking for a radioactive $100 bill. Coyotes were spotted in

Washington, D.C.



--Roger D. Hodge



Permanent URL for this column:



corner.



* * * * * * * * *

Recently on Harpers.org



THE EXECUTIVE CABIN

Posted on Monday, November 8, 2004. No balm better soothes

the tired presidential brow than a small, comforting yacht.

Originally from "The President at Home," Harper's New

Monthly Magazine, vol. 89, iss. 530, pp. 196-203, July 1894.

By Henry Loomis Nelson.



http://www.harpers.org/TheExecutiveCabin.html



NO CONTEST

Posted on Thursday, November 4, 2004. From a list of cases

heard in U.S. civil and criminal courts, published in the

October 24, 2004, issue of the ABA Journal eReport, the

online magazine of the American Bar Association. Originally

from Harper's Magazine, January 2004.



http://www.harpers.org/2004-01-NoContest.html



ELECTING TO LEAVE

A reader's guide to expatriating on November 3. Posted on

Wednesday, November 3, 2004. Originally from Harper's

Magazine, October 2004. By Bryant Urstadt.



http://www.harpers.org/ElectingToLeave.html



GARROTING: A GUIDE

Posted on Monday, November 1, 2004. Best practices for

half-strangling robbery victims. Originally from "Robbery as

a Science," Harper's New Monthly Magazine, vol. 26, iss.

156, pp. 738-747, May 1853. By Alfred H. Guernsey.



http://www.harpers.org/GarrotingAGuide.html



ORCHESTRATING WAR

Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004. From "Music at 6:

Scoring the News, Then and Now," by Carter Burwell, in the

inaugural issue of Esopus, published last October. Burwell

has composed scores for more than fifty films, including

Adaptation, Being John Malkovich, and all of the Coen

brothers' work. Originally from Harper's Magazine, February

2004.

[CHERIECURRIE]

Check this out.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=284


Kisses, Cherry V

[gus danger]

I am <font size="4">SO</font> convinced the election was stolen!
Thanks for all the good information you two. We the people have got to draw the line but even when some of the largest protest rallies in history occur they get marginalized and belittled as a bunch of nuts. The numbers "reported" are always far less than the true numbers of protesters.
Freedom of the press was guaranteed in the constitution so the people could be informed and keep their leaders in line.
Our media (for the most part) have become cheerleaders for the New World Order.
There are still some Great American truth tellers around however. Michael Moore, Amy Goodman, Al Franken and Phil Donahue to name a few.
And thank God for the Internet!
I take in as much as I can find so it's great to find it right here on your message board Cherie!

All we are saying, is Give Peace A Chance!
[img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img]
//oo\\
Gus

[CHERIECURRIE]

quote, Farmboy.

This has the potential to go longer than World War 2 if the public doesn't put an end to it and soon.

[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
My hope is for just that. If we can't get Bush out.. then I hope someone 'takes' him out.
Pretty soon this idiot's flipper finger will be twitching over that red button, I'm sure of it. Those poor, innocent people, the children... I'm disgusted. I've been proud to be an American, until now.

[img]mad.gif[/img]